Re: 144,000 from ALL the tribes (to Mr. Till)
yoel haalmoni (core@rof.net)
Mon, 19 May 1997 11:27:30 -0600
>> yoel haalmoni wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello! The following is a posting of mine from another list (Missionaries
>> > vs Jews). Mr. Till- am I not correct in this? I am in a rush and couldn't
>> > find a list of the 12 tribes, but I think the following is correct.
>> >
>> > yoel-
>> > for those who do not know- the 144,000 is from the XB, Revelation 7:4-8. It
>> > is, according to modern fundamentalists, supposed to be a prophecy and
>> > reads:
>> >
>> > "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed; 144,000 from ALL the
>> > tribes of Israel.
>> >
>> > >From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed
>> > from the tribe of Reuben 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Gad 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Asher 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Naftali 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Menaseh 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Simeon 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Levi 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Issaschar 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Joseph 12,000
>> > from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000"
>> >
>> > BUT THIS IS A MISTAKE! It's been years since I studied Judaism, so I may be
>> > wrong, but I am certain that this is incorrect. They are omitting "Efraim"
>> > and "Dan" and are including "Joseph" as a distinct tribe. Weren't Joseph's
>> > sons seperate tribes? Menasheh is included above, but Efraim is not. And
>> > Joseph is given as a distinct tribe. Also, Dan is missing. Isn't this list
>> > wrong?
>>
>> (Ian 5/19) Of course this is wrong! Ephraim and Manasseh were the sons
>>of Joseph so
>> Manasseh should not be here. Dan was one of the tribes. Where did
>>Naftali come from?
>> See Number: 1-1, the first census.
yoel-
Naftali is one of the tribes. Efraim and Menasheh were the sons of Joseph
and they are thought of as distinct tribes. Either they should have listed
BOTH Efraim and Menasheh or they should have listed ONLY Joseph (though I'm
not sure that the latter would be correct either). To list Joseph and
Menasheh is wrong. Also, Dan is missing. Levi is a tribe, but they were an
ecclesiastic tribe and I believe did not have land.
Again, the writer of Revelation (supposedly the Jewish John) obviously did
not know his Jewish history or Bible very well.
By the way, the Levites are the only tribe which is still distinct within
Judaism, since they have ecclesiastical tasks in synagogues. The rest,
which were based on geographic areas (at least in the later days), no
longer exist as seperate entities within Judaism.