Fw: The Catholic Church Sure Has Come A Long Way!

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NANCY
Ron, how do you know that Stalin's atheism is the reason he felt no
constraints when it came to killing? This is just mere speculation on your
part and it is groundless. Surely you realize that the alleged moral
constraints provided by your religion don't stop its adherents from
committing all sorts of atrocities. Why do we have to keep reminding you of
the Crusades and the Inquisitions (Roman and Spanish), of the RCC's
complicity in the wholesale slaughter and enslavement of indigenous
Americans and Australians?

KOLLER
But Nancy, don't you see, because the Pope did not invoke these atrocities
in "ex cathedra", they don't count against the RCC *or* the Pope. ;-)

Also, Ron has a long way to go in establishing causation here. First, Ron
must provide evidence that Stalin was an Atheist. Second, Ron must show
causation between that Atheism and Stalin's atrocities.

I recently was involved in a discussion on the "Eye of the Beholder" forum
where I ran against this same argument with regard to Hitler. The person was
making the same charges against Hitler as Ron is against Stalin.

So I'll tell Ron what I told this other person:

==========
...there is another logical fallacy that Dave is committing and it is called
"post hoc, ergo propeter hoc", literally meaning "After this, therefore
because of this."

Even if Dave could demonstrate that Hitler was an atheist, it doesn't
necessarily follow that it was the basis for his crimes against humanity.
Likewise, I cannot assert that Christianity was the basis for his crimes
against humanity. Indeed, I never made any such connection. I rebutted the
claim that Hitler was an atheist.
==========


RON
  OK, I realy don't think that just because someone is an atheist they 
will necessarily be more evil than other people or that Christians will 
necessarily be any better than others. This was said in an attempt to 
show those who make blanket assertions like that that they can be 
equally thrown back at them. That kind of thinking is a bit ridiculous. 
Talk about illogical! I do think many people use atheism as a crutch and 
that some use atheism as a means to escaping God's control, or in an 
attempt to silence their consciences. Sorry. I think agnosticism is a 
lot more logical. Someone who is a declared atheist is too sure of 
something he cannot have hoped to prove conclusively, which leads me to 
believe there is an element of wishful thinking involved. I think 
Catholics and other Christians are just as capable of evil as anyone 
else. They simply have to ignore their consciences a bit more. Whether 
Hitler was a Christian or Stalin was an atheist is irrelevent to whether 
there is or is not a God. There doesn't need to be or not be a God for 
people to dream up the most terrible sorts of evil in their own heads. 

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